SC-101 • Introduction To Modes

[justinguitar]

Questions...

[Zapped]

This sequence of lessons will be a big help to a lot of folks struggling with modes. I just had a question about the terminology used - I've only heard of relative and parallel modes, not series and parallel as Justin describes them.

Is this an American versus British idiom difference?

[justinguitar]

I nicked the terms from the Mick Goodrick book, and he is in the US, so I guess it's worldwide, but not sure.

I never heard of relative modes to be honest! But it makes sense as a term for it I guess...

[PhillD]

Great video justin, I was wondering about that series thing, I learnt it as relative but I think that's UK and RGT way of teaching it.
Still a term is no obstacle as long as the teaching is good. Wish I'd had this when I was starting out with modes, really messed with my head at first.

[Zapped]

I'll confess that after spending 20+ years in microprocessor design, I don't always remember the right music terminology, and sometimes I have to make up my own terms when memory fails me. But maybe in this case I should be more assertive - I think "series" modes may be a term that only Mr. Goodrick uses (or has coined). Every reference I could find uses relative and parallel to describe modes. Here are some examples -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relative_key

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallel_key

http://www.petethomas.co.uk/jazz-modes.html

http://www.cyberfret.com/theory/modes/101/index.php

http://www.guitarnoise.com/forums//viewtopic.php?f=12&t=6931

http://www.jdooley.com/bass/lesson_five.htm

http://www.music-web.org/forum/articles/1509-understanding-mode-mixture.html

http://www.esm.rochester.edu/community/classes/THEORY1.php


I think the lessons on modes would be more universally understood if series modes were renamed to be relative modes.

[TB-AV]

"I think "series" modes may be a term that only Mr. Goodrick uses (or has coined)."

It may very well be. It's an excellent term I believe. In fact the relative modes step through a series notes belonging to a given scale. Similar to counting from 1 to 8. It prevents the question "Relative to what?"

M. Goodrick has some of the most concise and easily understood terms and thought processes I have ever read.

Considering the fact that most everyone on the planet seems to have a problem grasping modes, and that they have been taught and termed the same for the most part, it would seem to me a new and valid terminology would be welcome.

Now if we can just get Fender to put the proper name on the Strat bridge. Tremolo!? who ever heard of such a thing! 

Seriously, don't knock Goodrick's terms until you try them.

Not only that but series and parallel is a term used daily by most electric guitar players. Speakers, effects, circuit building. Series is already a term that -makes sense-.

[edsel]

Parallel versus series. Would someone put a little more detail to this.
One is when you are playing the 5 chord you would start on the fifth note of the PMS scale and play to the fifth note an octave above. For example in the key of C when playing a G chord you would play the Cmajor scale starting on the G or the fifth note of the scale. I think this would be called G Mixolydian...
Would someone please explain the other one to me, and tell me if my example above is correct for one of them...
Thanks a bunch,
Edsel

[joker10]

Edsel I cant comment on the paralell vs series yet, I am finally starting to get the modes thing after re reading it for about the fourth time.  I think you nailed it, because what you said is the way that I understand it from Justin's Courses.  Except you explained the principle of it in 2 sentences. I would really like to have someone confirm that we are following this correctly.  Anyone i the know willing to say yea or no?

[justinguitar]

@Zapped - I'm not keen on the term relative - too close to rlative minor - and relativity asks relative to what (as TB pointed out). Series and Parallel are a pair of terms that to me exactly describe what is going on with the modes. I'm I don't care about convention too much - remember I call them flick-off's!!

@TB - agree completely. Mick Goodrick is the king. Long live the king.

@edsel - more detail coming up - just did the first lesson on parallel - check that and the next few before you get confused. You are correct that G Mixolydian has a PMS of C Major, but the reasoning is a little odd. Check the rest of the modes course and you'll be there.

@joker10 - yes the result is correct - check the following lessons out - they should explain things more!

[markju]

Hi,
great lessons on modes. Now here's a thought. If F sounds bad when played over a C chord as part of a scale why does  it sound good when included as part of the chord itself like in a Csus4? ie. alternately playing open C and adding in F every couple of strums.

[mdarby]

Justin,

Great site and videos!  I just discovered all this yesterday.

Over the years I've picked up some music theory and learned a bit about scales and modes.  I can play major / minor in the five CAGED positions and all the modes in the first position (with root on sixth string using index finger.)

None of this is fluent, however, so I want to go back and get each scale down cold and up to speed before working on the next.

You mention that you prefer the five scale positions but that others use seven.  You also mention that others play three notes per string but that you vary from this.

I had planned to learn all the modes cold from position 1 using a three per string method.  This seemed to facilitate some melodic sounding note runs when using basic patterns (like note skipping, playing six notes then moving up a string, etc.)  Because every string is memorized with three notes, alternative picking would seem to be easier.

I was also going to relearn the pentatonic scales in relation to the seven forms (adding two to the CAGED system.)  My theory was that would give me a scale for any root note on any string under any finger.

Finally, later my theory was I could learn the other major / minor scale fingerings in relation to the modal scales.  That is, the C Major fingering with root on the fifth string under the index finger is the same as the first position G Phrygian.

Does this make sense?  Is there any potential downside to this approach versus the CAGED system?  I know it's a couple extra positions, but I thought if I could view the CAGED system as within the seven mode approach (being aware of the extra two positions) it might hang together better.

Also, is there a downside to the three notes per string?  One thing I've noticed is that it can move the center of the scale shape "to the right" a couple frets, versus keeping it centered vertically over the root note.

Thanks!  Sorry for the long question.  I am happy to refer to another link if this has been answered.

Best,
Michael

[dungo]

I was digging the net for some modes theory.
Maybe you should also check the
http://www.cyberfret.com/theory/modes/101/page7.php

[justinguitar]

Hi,
great lessons on modes. Now here's a thought. If F sounds bad when played over a C chord as part of a scale why does  it sound good when included as part of the chord itself like in a Csus4? ie. alternately playing open C and adding in F every couple of strums.

Because sus means "take away the 3rd and replace with" - it is the 3rd and the 4th that clash when you play the major scale over a Major triad.

And if you just add the F every now and then it will sound fine - you just can't rest on it!

[justinguitar]

@mdarby

I don't like 3nps scales, unless it's for legato playing. They move away from the basic 5 chord shapes (CAGED) which is the way the guitar naturally shapes itself.

Read the rest about modes - they have nothing to do with the scale shape - they are to do with sound. DO NOT learn each of the 7 positions as a mode - it a crazy method and makes no sense in the real musical world.

Remember too that scales are just a vehicle - music is about sounds, not theory... which is why the 3nps string thing being better for alternate picking... do you think you will play scales up and down when you play? know anyone that makes great music out of that? I don't... music takes you places that don't form into patterns so what ever scales you use - remeber the point is to forget the scales and just make music!

good luck and I think the rest of the course should answer the rest of your questions on modes.

[pitcho44]

Hi.

New to forum but have been steadily making my way through the site.

My problem! Right lets stick to major scales and modes.

I understand the theory concept and application of major scales. I understand the theory and concept of major modes (although i'm working on the application).

Just struggling with one concept. How are the positions of modes and major scales related to each other?

Why are there only 5 major positions when there are 7 mode positions. Which two modes are missing from the 5 major positions? (if that is the case)

Are the two missing positions F and B chords ?

Why is major position ONE named as such? why is major position TWO named as such and do they correspond to modes? etc etc

I hope i have explained my problem clearly as i think its possibly one bit of specific theory that im missing in order to link it all together in my mind.

Thanks in advance

Russ.

Don't get me wrong i love playing but i really really enjoy getting to grips with the theory is that wrong lol